well...i can't say that they are garbage.....its just that you can buy the same manifold for much less and it proves otherwise about what AMS was stating regarding the ones being sold on ebay. If they are copies of the MSP they would surely free up HP/TQ...issue is that AMS comes off like they designed/made these manifolds and that the ones being peddled on Ebay weren't theirs but yet a copy of theirs. This thread proves they are the same. I have to get a set of MSP manifolds to do testing on those and compare them to these manifolds here. If anyone has a set of new MSP manifolds I'd like to know if you would be willing to send them to me for testing. NO damage would be done...just getting measurements and info. Even the testing done with the flow analysis is a bit skeptical as well. I'll be using the industries TOP flow bench to do my rounds on flow testing on.